hopes for kart racing

Igor

the two things i care the most about when playing arcade racing games is that it's fast and that drifting feels smooth. because it's kart racing, we already know it won't be very fast, so let's hope that at least it's not too slow or there's an option to increase speed

smooth drifting is hard to get right and many racing games fail at it. for drifting to feel smooth you shouldn't feel hard transition when entering drift mode and you should be able to easily drift around corner by tapping brake once. the best example of smooth drifting is 2010 Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit. you need to play it to feel it. other good examples are Burnout Revenge, Burnout 3, Ridge Racer 7 and the newest Hot Wheels Unleashed 2 also has relatively smooth drifting. on the other hand i absolutely hated drifting in Mario Kart 8, i didn't like the transition when entering drift mode and i had no idea how i was supposed to drift because i was either oversteering or slowing down too much

to make tracks more interesting it needs to have multiple paths and shortcuts. while Mario Kart 8 tracks are visually impressive, they are boring to drive because of how linear they are. the best example of complex tracks can be seen in Burnout Revenge. Hot Wheels Unleashed adds complexity in a different way by adding modules to the track, which create obstacles. this is also good because it can slow down players in the lead, giving a chance to players behind

giving help to people driving behind is always good. there's nothing fun to be constantly in the lead and there's nothing fun to drive behind the whole race because you made one mistake. the fun comes from close races. in Ridge Racer 7 you gain boost by driving behind other players, that's why you always see players overtaking each other instead of one player always being in the lead

even though developers probably already made decisions on how their kart racing will be, i hope they consider what i think

Igor

i will also add that drifting should not slow you down too much. games like Split Second and Need for Speed Unbound made this mistake of making drifting slow you down a lot, which makes you not want to use drift at all, because it's faster to go around corner without drifting

you should also not be able to ride against walls faster than taking corners properly. you should not be able to cut parts of the track, if you're not meant to. generally there should not be any exploits making you go faster than you're supposed to

Igor

this all may be too much details for a simple kart racing game mode, but because i am so much about racing games, i can't resist to add one more things. from what we saw in the trailer, the road shown there seems to be wide. this is a good thing. wide roads feel nicer to drive and it makes driving easier. the opposite can be seen in Wipeout games, that have tight roads with walls slowing you down a lot, which makes it a difficult racing game to play

what we also saw in the trailer is that Nemo drives a kart that looks like it's made of Lego. i wonder if this is official collab or not. for this reason i've played Lego 2K Drive game, and this game is a good example of very bad drifting system. all it does is oversteers you into the wall, so i hope the developers weren't learning from this game

Igor

the officials don't like me scolding them, so now let's go back to what we have been doing all this time - say something nice about better things they do. and the only better thing i can think of now is nemo kart. i think i should respond to what i was hoping for earlier

a concern was about how smooth the mechanics will be and what we got is impressive. there's no chunkiness in sight, something that even dedicated racing games often fail it. the game uses similar drifting mechanics as mario kart, which i stated that i dont like, so when you drift, it pushes you into outer wall. this is different from other racing games i played, but with time i learned how to use this drifting system properly, the idea is to start drifting long before you approach corner. then you can make tight turns and it even feels nice. still not a drifting system i am used to and some kids may have harder time with it. luckily a lot of corners can be taken without drifting, though if faster karts are introduced, then drifting will be necessary. and i hope they will be introduced, because i want faster karts

the first track is incredible, both visually and by it's course. just like i wanted it, the track features shortcuts and multiple paths. the first shortcut is pretty cool because of being risky. but with time you learn to execute this shortcut without crashing every time

another hope was for supporting those, who drive behind. and we've got it with players behind receiving boost and weapons, while leading player only gets bananas and gears. still, because of my experience with racing games, this did not help them much and i still won every race i played. i dont think any changes should be made, because not everyone spent as much time on racing games as me. so it should help other players

the gears system is impressive, and i always appreciate unique mechanics in racing games

grass slows you down just right, it feels good when it slows you down a lot and prevents you from cutting corners, so no changes needed

i didn't find any exploits, that make you go faster than you should or cut parts of the track. this is good

regarding kart balance, i cant say much about it, because in racing games i usually pick the best vehicle and stick with it. i don't like changing vehicles, as you may perform worse with unfamiliar vehicle

we have a selection of karts, but more tracks are necessary to not keep the game stale. for now it's something you play for a little and go back to other modes. but i would spend a lot of time with nemo kart, if there were more tracks

the option to turn off power ups is nice, because i dont really like power ups, unless it's boost. for my friends i will still keep it on. for some reason the buttons to restart game and go back to lobby are missing. those are needed. and preferably there needs to be fast restart, without loading the map and selecting karts again, i like practicing

maybe some of you can come up with kart ideas. for now i can only think of golf kart, because i like golf

overall nemo kart is better than i expected and there's not much i don't like about it. i even got used to bizzare controls

i have already recorded some tips for kart racing, but i will keep it for full video. i can still send you those tips in DM so you can improve racing right away. this is the time for 1 lap that you should beat:

(don't add leaderboard, it's stressful)

Cartrimino

Igor really my only complaint about Nemo Kart is either how the karts are quite expensive or how little gears you get for completing a race. They both work in tandem so I'm not sure which one actually is my complaint.

areswacky

I do agree that out of the bat, this is a smooth iteration of previous formulas and have nailed the party kart genre. Handling feels great; after just a few matches the flow into drifts on winding tight corners are very doable.

Though i have a few things i would like to add to this conversation for the future of this mode. Many compare this being a direct relation to Mario Kart. And while i think that this mode is a great inspiration of this game, I hope there are some levels of branching out of the norm for its mechanics...

That's not to say directly with just adding more "powerups" or "kart selection stats" of that sorts, but implementing elements that work in the style of party animals for the track design and dynamic play. For instance, The Last Stand maps are know to each have a dynamic aspect that drastically breaks up the map in (initially) unexpected ways. Igor makes a good point of different pathways and obstacles, as this could be one, but to take it a step further would be to have events (usually in the form of a catalyst for disaster in Last Stand) would change the track as a whole to splice up the next lap per say.

Though this is a lot more work especially of a map of this size compared to the cookie cutter fighting maps, I look forward to seeing the PA team step out of the box here.

oh... one more critique, players seem very "split up". I don't know if its because i have only landed 2nd or 1st in all games (note I am just more experienced with racing games and could be a perspective from a better player), but sometimes i am so far ahead that there's not much action. I'm not sure if there's bots in some matches or what. It seems to me the item pool is more swayed towards boosts than rockets. but very little do i get combat opportunities. Maybe this is a good thing? If so there could be more of what I aforementioned.

A side-line idea that I would personally see that might fit well with the game's philosophy that i didn't want to include in my main part: take a spin on MK double dash with a more co-op or dueling aspect of the game. The ragdoll feel of the game is lacking in this mode...

Igor

areswacky the events you are talking about is Split Second. the game still looks impressive, although has terrible controls

Igor

Cartrimino maybe you dont win much? i got 1000 gears in no time and spend nemo bucks on other karts because it's cheap and i dont need nemo bucks for anything else

areswacky

Cartrimino gears are not much of an issue for me, the General Leveling pass is much slower progression imo

Igor

i played more mario kart 8 today and it also has tracks with multiple layouts that change with every lap. Hot Wheels Unleashed makes you drive different routes in a simple way: there is a module with a moving bridge. depending on the angle of the bridge when you approach it, the bridge will either throw you to lower or upper track. there's also a module with a dragon, who is placed on a split of tracks and would breath fire in one or another direction. this will determine where you go.

the developers could learn a lot from other games. mario kart doesnt have many fun things other racing games have

areswacky

unfortunately I do have a notion that the map roster won't be very large anytime soon, looking at maps already aren't added very often to begin with. I'm slightly afraid PA is going in the direction of not having enough eggs to put in each basket. I see that they might be trying to make this game more of a general party game, but hopes to maintain development times on all fronts of the game. If they aren't careful they may not be able to juggle the concerns of both games and their differences.

Going into another experimental mode after Smash, being not as highly received from what I've seen, could be straining, though we'll see!

granted I've only been in this community for a short time, so maybe you guys have more to say on this

Igor

areswacky we love smash and we even suggest new perk ideas. i don't expect a new track soon easier, but at least 2 more would be nice

Igor

and this is me politely asking now, if you make any changes to kart racing, please only make the karts faster and items more powerful. nothing slower or weaker. make only better changes and that's how you will make the game more fun

Igor

i tested nemo kart on chinese server to see if maybe this could be another game mode that we can play together, aside of uno, but no. this is the game mode we simply can't play together, the delay feels massive

Guille92h

Is there a way to go in reverse gear? Today I crashed into a wall and I had to lose a lot of time because I had to go forward till the car turned against the wall so I lost a lot of positions, if there is not reverse I think is really good thing to implement, for the rest the physics feel good.

Cartrimino

Guille92h if you're using Xbox, it's the A button

Guille92h

Cartrimino thanks

Igor

golden trolley is now slower and it seems both trolley and puppy kart now handle worse. the time posted earlier can no longer be achieved. i can't complain, because it's beta, but i hope we get faster karts, instead of making existing karts slower. in today's testing most of the time puppy was ahead of golden trolley, but one time, with enough gears, i managed to get the exact same time

i wish gray blocks was the fastest, because i like it visually. or maybe the green trolley made to be the fastest, because that store reminds me of animal crossing

Igor

i was happy to see new tracks being added so soon. this was a priority and it was a right choice to do that. and while i want to make it clear that i dont complain about gifts, i still want to analyze the new tracks in hopes that maybe the officials will consider my opinion, just like they consider opinions of people asking to make weapons weaker

the snow track really feels like the developers wanted to add something fast and didnt have time to work on something complex. the tracks feels like something from a cheap PS1 kart game. there is nothing to it. even the jump at the end feels like it was added just that there was at least something going on. in comparison even reverse Shanghai feels more fun (i also like night tracks). on snowmobile you can do all corners without drifting and you dont need to use boost pads. this is the fastest way to go around track. a better design would be that you are required to drift so you dont oversteer into walls and you really need to use boost pads.

and i really dont understand the decisions to place boost pads and speed lanes (from night Shanghai) near outer walls, you wouldnt want to purposely take wrong racing line and it doesnt compensate for how much time you're losing. this should always be your racing line

i also want to remind the developers that we still need to be able to remap buttons and have restart and end game buttons for lobby. this shouldnt be hard to do

Igor

for those wondering how much faster puppy kart is now. this is before:

this is now:

i am human machine getting exactly the same time 3 times in a row