Self- Flinging / Momentum Boost - Fun Technique or Bad Exploit?

Igor

Anon the game has been out for two months. what fucking "veterans" are you talking about?

Anon

Igor
It's a relative term in video games and often used to describe more skilled players.

Igor

Anon the so called "skilled" players should not have more advantage then they do. teach those techniques to newer players, that's something i can tolerate

Anon

Igor
Because of the nature of this game I doubt it's going to be a problem, but it is one my main concerns as I already stated.

Somehow I feel like you are just trying to start an argument without comprehending my original post.

Igor

Anon i stated clearly to you that "veterans" should not have more advantage. but you are not wrong, i don't miss an opportunity to make fun of someone talking about "skill" in this game

BugalugsNugget

This is a tricky one, but outside of forums like these, these are essentially "undocumented" behaviours that seem to go against the laws of physics at times. This places a barrier to entry for some players as the controls page only gives you a minimal list of controls, and the results of these behaviours (like the fling) are not what you'd expect to happen in a physics-based game. If everyone else is doing this kind of thing, other players can't really be expected to figure out that these kinds of things are possible without resorting to forums or just by trial and error.

I can see moves like the fling completely breaking some of the sports-based levels, for sure, unless everyone knows how to do it. But then, I personally feel that if everyone was doing the fling, the game would lose a lot of its charm and it'd be like watching The Matrix. The fact that the game is (or should be) grounded with real physics is one of the fun parts for me personally (and I believe it was mentioned in their press release) and I wouldn't want to lose that due to these undocumented and unrealistic behaviours.

Just my thoughts on it, @komikoza.

Anon

BugalugsNugget
Today I had the pleasure to play against a tryhard team which was using all the possible tricks. The match was very unbalanced so it wasn't as fun as usual, but self-flinging didn't play a big role in that.

After seeing this thread I have been using self-fling all the time and it makes the game more enjoyable to me. It's not an overpowered feature and it actually requires some practice to make any use of it. It's very tempting to fling myself around, but a lot of times I end up causing more harm than good.

Tbh, I would be quite sad if it was removed from the game.

komikoza

I appreciate everyone's recent inputs. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. (:

I see that the majority of people here, including those that don't necessarily agree with the entirety of my message, agree on one thing, which is - if more people start using this, then yes, it's going to become bad. Doesn't that... mean that if it becomes bad in numbers, then it's probably bad to begin with?

BugalugsNugget You're making a strong point there. Though the game has a lot of moments that don't necessarily relate to the real-time physics. The majority of them are simple, innocent fun (like the 1000 tonne hammer shenanigans), and probably absolutely should stay in the game. Phsyics-based games are bound to have some of that goofy-glitchy stuff, and as long as it causes no harm to the game, they should probably stay.

Anon Hi!

I'm glad this thread helped you discover this stuff and the ongoing discourse associated with it. I agree it can be fun here and there indeed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "how the game evolves" though. It's perplexing because you agree it is an exploit and that it will become bad if more and more people start using it, which is the only natural way for it to evolve(?).

"Veterans" don't have to resort to exploits to diversify their joy for the game. I don't really see any reason for "veterans" needing to have that kind of advantage over newer players.

DzL "Some people" might have a point at the end of the day. To me, for example, it's no fun seeing game design being bypassed or broken due to players resorting to exploits. Same as I don't want to see new players being obliterated due to these "techniques". I understand you find it fun, that's fair.

What I find fun is naturally getting good at the base game mechanics available to the player. I want to see people become actually good instead of finding various workarounds to the gameplay. Discovering interesting tricks and techniques is beautiful, but to me there's certain line that shouldn't be crossed, which in this case is the game/level design being violated.

¯\ (ツ)/¯

DzL

Anon Totally agree about self-flinging... It's basically each individual's gaming perspective, but some people like to make it tense and controversial. The important thing is that we find joy in the game. Peace 🙏 !!!

Anon

DzL
Definitely enjoying the game so far. 👍

My total playtime is less than 10 hours so there's still a lot to learn.

BugalugsNugget

komikoza Funnily enough, I did think of the hammer as I was writing that. I like the goofy nature of the 1000T hammer. I didn't mention some of the crazy things that happen with it because when you use it, it sounds like it's made of rubber (or is inflatable), so I'd expect it to behave a bit differently than, say, the baseball bat. Either way, I wouldn't want to lose it because it results in some truly hilarious moments (even if I'm the victim).

Also, for:

What I find fun is naturally getting good at the base game mechanics available to the player. I want to see people become actually good instead of finding various workarounds to the gameplay. Discovering interesting tricks and techniques is beautiful, but to me there's certain line that shouldn't be crossed, which in this case is the game/level design being violated.

I couldn't agree more.

Anon

komikoza
Games evolve with the playerbase and also when new content is added and/or discovered. When self-fling was discovered this game evolved. Now we can talk about SF'ing and it should be a thing. Every succesful game needs hidden mechanics which make the game more interesting in a long run.

I didn't mean that more experienced players need to have an advantage over newer players, but because in the end there's going to be mostly veterans playing against each other, an extra layer of complexity is a nice feature to have.

It's rare, but sometimes bugs are good for the long-term health of a video game. I think this is one of those cases where the benefits outweigh the possible harm it can cause.

Offtopic:
It's a good idea to keep track of the general consensus as you did in the beginning of your post.

(I'm going to take a break from the forum discussions. See you all next year!)

Igor

jumping far doesn't make much difference but throwing the ball far makes huge difference in american football

BugalugsNugget

Igor I think jumping far on the sports levels could make a difference too, I think. Imagine how much faster you could get back to the goal if you were at the other end of the pitch and used the fling, for instance. If all of the other players were limited to rolls only then they'd be at disadvantage.

Also, I've not tried this, but I wonder if the fling would allow you to do a super-powerful kick in Soccer or Hockey?

Igor

BugalugsNugget it takes forever to get up from a jump kick. i have yet to witness it being useful. more testing needed

Igor

he couldn't take the heat. lol

komikoza

I am all for the game evolving, just not via exploits or bugs that noticeably collide with the design. Take care! 😅

Wrayyne

The body fling is tolerable imo; it's the absurd launching of the team-based objects (insta-fused flung bombs on Trebuchet, insta-scored Buzz Balls, insta-touchdowned Footballs, etc.) that become a problem and ruin the fun.

komikoza

BugalugsNugget It will be a huge advantage if you use the spots that are between the belts. The ones that don't drag you back like the belts do. Then the full momentum of self-fling is gonna propel you way forward; However, if you try this on any belt, it won't be as effective. It is true that it depletes less at least twice less stamina than a roll would, yes. I would also consider it part of the reason why it's problematic.

Wrayyne As I mentioned in the OP back then, self-fling isn't just to hurl yourself over large distances. It generates a lot of momentum and can affect just about anything you can touch. You can use it to boost the Hockey Puck or Soccer Ball in the according modes, or even KO people point blank stronger than ever. So... yeah.

But even then, regarding the distance coverage. Take a look at this couple of videos. Newly discovered out-of-bounds-god-spots. On its own, it's great stuff like this gets tested and reported, however... You see how those spots are accessed? Yes, by the self-fling. Now try the same without using it and you will never get there (unless it's very rare occurrences of getting launched by weapons and you just happen to be grabbing the wall).

UnseenMind

I wonder how this would affect the new game mode. I haven't played it yet, but from what I've seen your running on a conveyor and you die if you fall off. If you can just fling over and over again that would provide a large advantage to somebody who does not know how to...

Igor

UnseenMind we can test later today with people who know how to do this shit

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