SMASH - Score System Overhaul Suggestion

komikoza

Hi there,

Since the very beginning, I've thought the SMASH score system might need some adjustments. I love the mode, and I've had a bunch of fun with it. Seeing it in QM is a blessing, and I'd like to thank the developers for making it happen.

First thing I'd like to put right off the bat: to incentivize people to play the mode more as opposed to classic, it could be a good idea to put rewards for victories (egg coins, cookies, or bucks, again), independent of the normal rewards.

Moving on to the issue at hand, let's quickly review how scoring in SMASH works now:

Round 1 Win Score Award - 50
Round 2 Win Score Award - 100
Round 3 Win Score Award - 150
Round 4 Win Score Award - 200
Round 5 Win Score Award - 250
Round 6 Win Score Award - 300

Total: 1050 points

Every next round awards 50 more points than the previous ones. It's simple logic and simple math: more perks at play, more points awarded. However, this starts making less sense in the grand scheme of things. Let me expand on this:

Case 1: You can win Round 1 and Round 2 and get 150 points, but any other team winning Round 3 will get the same 150 points.

Case 2: You can win Round 1, 2, and 3, and get 300 points, but any team winning Round 4 and 5 will already get 450.

Case 3: You can win Round 1, 2, 3, and 4, and get 500 points, but the team winning Round 5 and 6 will get 550 points, basically making your previous 4 victories obsolete by winning twice.

So, the effort-to-reward ratio isn't really balanced, especially if you consider all the RNG that can happen in a match. Sometimes perks don't matter, or sometimes perks don't work to their fullest due to a random map pick.

I propose reworking the base award system and adding a simple bonus/penalty system on top. Each round victory will award a fixed amount of 100 points (maybe each next round could be 25 points increment instead of 50).

Award 25 points for kills and deduct 25 points for deaths. If you and/or your partner get wiped, you can get a maximum penalty of -50 points per round (score can't go lower than 0). There are 4 teams with 2 players each, so the maximum bonus your team for eliminating everyone can get is 6x25 = 150 per round.

The way I see the benefits of this system:

Overall, it more or less balances out the randomness and unpredictability of the game as well as the effort-to-reward ratio.
Round victories remain consistently valuable, but not entirely definitive of the entire game's outcome.
Aggression/skill is rewarded, so there is more sense to it as opposed to simply avoiding combat. You get bonuses and may compensate for a teammate's elimination and, sometimes, the entire round (if you happen to eliminate 4 players = 4x25 = 100 points).
Idle play or getting eliminated is penalized by either not getting bonus points or flat out losing them.

Note that this is a raw draft and not a fully fleshed-out system, even though I tried. It's a basic adjustment for what we have now. I realize it might perhaps be a bit too competitive for some, but probably nothing a couple adjustments couldn't fix.

Later on, many more things can be added, such as weapon/hazard elimination bonuses, item use bonuses, etc. But maybe there's no need to overcomplicate it.

I'd like to hear others' opinions on this and maybe some awesome suggestions (or constructive criticism, which is always welcome).

Cheers!

Igor

it's how it should be. it gives more chances for winning to those who were unlucky in first rounds, instead of watching some team winning with no chances. the more randomness the better. we are happy seeing competitive children getting angry

Igor

and all changes should be made to features before they go public. after it's public, we don't want any changes

Igor

a kid can lose all rounds, but he will be happy if he wins the game by winning the last round. the producer said that he wants party animals to be like uno. you should be thinking about having a fun game and not about winning

komikoza

Igor I see your point. However, the definition of fun is subjective and varies from player to player, the ultimate goal in the game (as it is competitive by nature) is to win. Me going for the win, for example, does not negate any fun had in the process even if the game is lost at the end of the day. It's just how it works.

I think that same theoretical kid would be pretty unhappy if they won 4 out of 6 rounds but lost in the end anyway. 😅

My suggestion is aimed rather at adding depth to the gameplay/game mode rather than tailoring the entire thing for pure competition.

They also said they have Skill Based Match Making, which is actually what should be responsible for keeping players of different skill levels (unavoidable) happy on average. The sole reason for its existence is to separate players into different skill categories so the experience can be adjusted for everyone. That way you don't have kids, casuals and competitive players mixed together (makes big sense I think).

Igor

komikoza smash is what separates competitive children from regular kids, because competitive children are not happy when they win 3 rounds, but still lose the game. i don't care if i lose. you want to win at uno, but you are not upset if you lose. it's what makes it fun when tables are turned, and this is exactly what i liked about smash. it's a great idea to give you more points with each round, you're just asking to make smash worse

the developers are professionals and they know better how the game should be. they shouldn't listen to what ordinary players think, because most ordinary players simply don't have mental capacity to understand why certain things are the way they are

Igor

what you can ask is for an option in custom that will let you configure equal amount of points for each game, this would not hurt anyone, and this is what i want everyone to do - don't ask the game to be changed for everyone, ask for options in custom

Igor

everyone should learn to respect other players and not ask for changes that other players may not want. aside of those who use exploits, they should get fucked

Cartrimino

Yeah I think the current scoring system is as good as it can be. For example, the theoretical kid Igor mentioned would still at least be happy if they won the last round, because they now know they have the ability to beat the competitive people next time. And the game isn't competitive by nature, it's only purpose is to entertain, and entertainment isn't abusing physics to try and win. The reason that the scoring system is like this is so other people get a chance at winning, as Igor mentioned above. The competitive people don't like this though and want only them to win, and you have fallen into that trap @komikoza. The competitive people only make the game worse through turning physics against the game, this is visible in tactics such as suicide bombing and ledge camping. They want the game to be fully catered to their needs in such a game, for example, if these people don't like how others who are getting used to the controls picking up a powerful weapon, they will harass the Devs until said weapon is changed. This in turn is similar to Fortnite players who insist that every easily accessible powerful weapon is removed so new players have no chance. This makes the game unfair and not fun for many people. And this idea for the scoring system is just another example of a competitive player thinking that the game should be their ideal version of the game. If you don't like how the current scoring system is, make your own game that fixes this issue, but keep this out of our game, the game we payed money for, the game that we know and love, and the game we want to keep the same for as long as you whiners and complainers exist within our community.

komikoza

Cartrimino I am a competitive player, that is true, though I am not sure you fully understand what "competitive by nature" means.

The game is at its core designed as "Player vs Player" (PvP), and where PvP is, there is always competition. Because people are directly put against each other, competition is inherent. It's in the definition, and you can't argue about this fact.

By creating the game with PvP in mind, the developers directly established its competitive nature. This won't change even if the developer says otherwise. Anything you say regarding the game's 'only purpose' like fun or entertainment are your own beliefs and wishes for the game. Any game's purpose is to entertain, by nature as well.

I understand you have a strong bias towards "competitive", I don't agree with your take and the overall generalization of the players, and that is fine. If you think that running at somebody with a bomb as means to eliminate them is unfair same as ledge camping, there will be nothing I can say to change your mind on that. Just remember - all of that is the gameplay environment provided by the developers and you're not in the position to set limits for it.

If you don't like my suggestion regarding the system, save us all time and just move along instead of telling me to make my own game or any other irrelevant reply in the same vein. I have no interest in back-and-forth arguments if you refuse to understand the point of the suggestion and the message that accompanies it (I politely asked for constructive criticism, not a strong emotional biased response). This is a suggestion for the developers that they may or may not consider. It's not up to you whether they do or not.

I know it might be a big revelation, but I also love the game, and I also paid money for it. I, however, wouldn't want to 'exist' in a community that employs an unhealthy elitist mindset that you seem to be putting on display here. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Igor

komikoza the game is as competitive as mario party, yet somehow we got too many players thinking this is esports. smash mode is exactly what i was asking for: making the game more random. randomness will filter all competitive children, so we can have fun in peace

Cartrimino

Igor exactly. If we have this scoring system, we average Joes have a better chance at beating the sweats. Like you said above @komikoza, winning the last two or three rounds can get the win. This may be devastating for competitive players but we see it as a success. Yes, I may have a bias against sweats, but that's because I'm sick and tired of every quick match and custom game being full to the brim with them. It is undeniable that they make the game unenjoyable and if you disagree, then you must enjoy being spammed with a crossbow, don't you? And besides, you have a bias for sweats, why else have you defended their tactics at every turn? This is indeed a PvP game, but not every PvP game attracts competitive players who abuse mechanics and physics, for example, Kirby's Dream Buffet. The developers themselves said that they don't want these people in their games and you can't say otherwise. Heck, you literally said that this is designed to favour sweats. All this will do is push people away from Smash, and I speak for the rest of the forum when I say we don't want that.
P.S: a suicide bomber is someone who drags someone else to death with them so they both die. Get your argument straight.

Igor

Cartrimino in kirby dream, however, they didn't balance it the best way. there are walls making you completely stop for a while, so that other players can catch up. this just doesn't feel good. there should be better ways to give help to those players, who are losing. like i wrote in my racing game thread, giving boost to players driving behind helps them to catch up. this makes the race more fun. in the end if you actually play good, you can still win. like in smash, if you play well, you can win the last around. everyone has equal chances winning it

komikoza

Cartrimino It was just an example, not related to competitive players per se. You don't have to make it about them.

In reality, they understand how the current system works and will AFK until round 5 and 6, then win those rounds (more often than not), leaving you and others bamboozled.

And not just them, and that's precisely my point regarding the current system in SMASH. It is an abusable score system with a very uneven effort-to-reward ratio.

I will never understand these complaints like ledge camping or dragging others away to win (perfectly viable), or being shot with a crossbow designed to... shoot. This is the game, not abuse of mechanics. Ask the developer if it is, and they’ll likely be confused you even asked. My point - it is you not liking integral parts of the game, not anyone or anything else.

Two important questions: Why blame players for this? What do you suggest developers do about it?

Your problems will be solved if SBMM works correctly, putting you with players who share your beliefs. That will make everyone happy, and that’s what many players, including myself, would like to see.

Take a look at the original PA trailers and see the tone they were going for. You'll even spot ledge camping in each of them, including the recent 2024 version. I hope it helps understand what I mean.

Igor

komikoza yes, take a look at the trailers and see that this is a casual game. "competitive" games have completely different trailers. you can ledge camp all you want, this will just make people not want to play with you. if you prioritize winning over making friends, that's your decision

regarding "afk", this is another quick match problem. i said this numerous of times, party animals is meant to be played in custom. all problems people have come from playing quick match. the trailers literally tell you to fight your friends

aside of small bugs and exploits, there aren't any problems with party animals game. the main problem is it's playerbase. we have too many people we don't need. some people message me saying that certain players play good. i couldn't care less about how anyone plays. we're trying to relax here. i do care when my friends tell me that their skins got selected to be added to the game, that's something i can respect. how anyone plays doesn't bother me. they are playing the wrong game

Igor

here's how you kill without having to resort to ledge camping. i'm sure a "competitive" player will not have problem winning the game without playing dirty. and no one hates you