Did they change conveyor belt map?

bkramer

I played this map for the first time in a couple weeks today. I got thrown off the main part of the map onto the side conveyor belt. I couldn't climb back up onto the main part. Tried holding RT and Y like I did before and it didn't work. Couldn't get back up, so it was basically just stalling time before I inevitably fell off the end.

BugalugsNugget

bkramer so it was basically just stalling time before I inevitably fell off the end

Isn't that all this map is? It's one of the reasons I never vote for it personally any more - it just becomes a rolling contest, while other players run up the sides (or constantly fling) so they avoid having to roll.

A bit off-topic, but I don't know how I feel about these kinds of artificial time restrictions on maps. I understand that they don't want spectators to get bored, but I'm not sure that making the maps essentially unplayable towards the end of the round is the answer. Conveyor Belt is, for me, the worst offender because you can no longer fight towards the end of the round when all belts are moving super-fast. It's entirely possible I need to just become better, but I can't help feeling that it's not the right approach.

Maybe, if towards the end of the round, one of the belts remained at a slower speed while the others moved super-fast, that would allow fighting to continue and more tactics, as you could hit someone and throw them onto a fast-moving belt to get rid of them. Or, if the belts remained at a sensible speed, but different items appeared from the chute towards the end, that might make it more interesting while also allowing the round to end sooner. Dunno.

Igor

they did change it but in other ways. you should drop kick from side belt to get back to main belts

Igor

BugalugsNugget please, not the UK man complaining of all

it is fun that maps get destroyed in the end. it's fun to compete in other ways than fighting

Conveyor is the best map right now

komikoza

You can still get up from the side belts by simple jumps (need to sprint though) or dodge-rolls, but as the time goes dropkick becomes the only viable option.

BugalugsNugget Conveyor is a pretty bland map at the moment, I agree on that. A couple things I'd highlight:

It is too big as of now. I think the two belts on the sides are not needed, and maybe the vertical length should be a tad bit shorter as well.
It's all about staying in front to avoid being taken out by the conveyor belt. This turns into a silly contest of running around and trying to occupy the sweet front spot, or it forces you to try hard eliminating enemies in the beginning (which is a pain due to the aforementioned size of the map). This was bearable before the cheese fixes (spots that helped you avoid conveyor movement) because you could come back to the front even if you were in the back, but now the issue is apparent.
Timer is useless. Just make the conveyor belts move faster/fix all cheese.
The little car(t) thing is still useless unless it traps people under it. I think the design idea was sort of fighting for it to avoid being pulled by the belts.

Also, regarding the cheese fixes: you can still avoid the conveyor movement by standing 50/50 on the side and the conveyor belt, so in the end the main issue of most games ending into a "who can stay on the cheese the longest" has not been fully dealt with. :s

It definitely requires some tweaks to it. A while back I suggested that the conveyor belts drop all kinds of rubbish and not just weapons/bananas/wooden planks, so it becomes a game of who can avoid stuff more effectively. I think it could make it more fun.

BugalugsNugget

Igor Just an opinion, buddy. Not saying I'm right. I know you're a big fan of Conveyor Belt, as are many others. It just doesn't feel like a typical Last Stand Party Animals map to me because the latter stages don't contain fighting.

I'm aware I'm not great at this map, and historically I've found that if I'm not good then I dislike - which is biased and unfair. I found this with Soccer, and as I've got a bit better at controlling my character I find I enjoy it more (Soccer requires much more finesse than a simple fighting map). I just feel that Conveyor has bigger problems.

But, I will explore other ways of competing and see how I get on.

PS: I also feel that Ichiban is a bit broken too (and I love that map), as you can die too easily in the gas at the beginning. I feel that the gas should only appear later in the map, a bit like the ice in Broken Arrow. Having it appear later would make for some more fun moments where everyone's trying to climb back up at the beginning, having been knocked off. The gas at the beginning seems to be there to stop people wandering out of the play area only, which again seems like an artificial restriction. I'm sure it took longer to die in the gas when the game was first released.

Igor

BugalugsNugget hm. there's plenty of time on ichiban before the gas rises

BugalugsNugget

Igor Yes there is time before it rises, but I’m referring to the gas that’s at the bottom. If you get knocked off the map immediately there’s a very good chance you’ll die in the gas that’s there at the beginning. Many times I’m dead within the first 10 seconds of the round starting, which is why I adjusted my play style to stay near the centre - which gives me time to wake up before getting thrown off, should I get knocked out at the start. This works sometimes, but if there’s lag I’ll often be thrown off and dead before I’ve had a chance to do anything.

I feel the gas should not be there at all at the start of the round, and that it would be better if it were more like Broken Arrow’s ice, where that appears later in the round. Or, like Ice Breaker’s cracking ice, which happens later in the round also.

Igor

BugalugsNugget on broken arrow you can also die instantly after you spawn as on other maps too, so i dont understand why you only have this issue with ichiban. without gas it will be boring

BugalugsNugget

Igor Yes, you’re 100% correct. After posting, I laid in bed thinking about it last night and realised the same thing. It provides a similar mechanic to Broken Arrow and does make sense, as without the gas at the beginning you’d constantly be knocking players off - who’d then just keep climbing back up. This would continue for a long time and be less fun, as it’s hard to kill other players just by hitting them. You need that additional mechanic that increases the chance of them dying, and that’s what the gas provides.

Igor

BugalugsNugget they mostly do climb back up though. it's only when you get punched into gas that you die. maybe you're just unlucky then. the issue with ichiban is that people can guard on edges which makes some other people sad. on broken arrow they dont feel sad

Igor

komikoza please get back to your containment. no need for cringe people on my forum

Igor

komikoza i honestly would rather see @Cedar_Z 's posts than yours

Vividtoast

Igor when i get knocked into the gas, its like 50% for me, sometimes im able to immediately get back up and climb and other times my character is just looking at the ground, making it impossible to climb back up. its not like i got knocked out, im still able to walk around but for some reason my character is on the ground not doing anything (once again not while knocked out.)

BugalugsNugget

Welcome back, @komikoza. I've been wondering where you were, and a shout out to the OG @UnseenMind and @Nullstrukt too - who've not been around as much.

@Igor, yes you can sometimes climb back up, and maybe 50% of the time I'm able to do that.

I don't know if there's been a change, but these days it feels like you die quicker in the gas. I'm sure I could previously survive a bit longer. Now I can almost guarantee that if I take a hit that knocks me off, I'll land in the gas and die before I can even run back to the wall. Sometimes the gas will kill me inside 2 seconds.

It's odd; it almost feels like the gas around the outside of the level kills you quicker than the gas that forms on the platform itself. I guess stamina must play a part here, as if you've been knocked off the level then your stamina will be lower.

PS: Just seen the post from @komikoza to @Cedar_Z about Winter is Coming. Seems like he's answered my comment above about stamina and death.

Igor

BugalugsNugget no change, just your imagination. if you get knocked out into gas - you die. if you get knocked out on top and thrown into gas - you live, with some exceptions

Nullstrukt

BugalugsNugget I am still around, just haven't had much to post (and I keep forgetting to record gameplay for funny moments, doh!).

I have also started a personal project related to this game that I hope to be able to share in the next few weeks...if I can make myself sit down to work on it, ha. Basically a level idea but I am mocking up the entire thing in 3D. Hopefully it will be a fun idea pitch when it's done!

As to the actual topic of the thread, I do often struggle to get off the side conveyor belts on this map (thankfully I saw someone use the jump kick and that helped me). I don't know what's more aggravating for me to get back on the main battle area--the side belts in Conveyor or trying to climb back on the ice in Ice Breaker, ha.

Hope to game with y'all again sometime soon! 🙂

Igor

BugalugsNugget komikoza is no longer welcome on this forum. he turned out to be a bad person

komikoza

BugalugsNugget Thanks! Don't get me started on this... The forums being unmoderated is just not a good sight, I will only visit every once in a while, to post funny clips and maybe share my insight with a person or two. 😅

It's the same with Ichiban, yes. HP + KO State + gassed space. If you are knocked out, you receive more damage. The gas covers progressively more space as the timer goes (but does not become more severe in damage from my observations).

The devs definitely shadow tweak things here and there without announcing them anywhere in changelog (mostly damage values of things). At some point gas wasn't as severe as it is now, and you could climb out even from pretty bad situations. Now they made it harsh again (which I welcome personally).

Many people complain they die faster than their enemies, the truth is they just have less hit points. Again, it has to do with the damage you receive from both gas and players. Sometimes (mostly in the earlier stages because low gas levels) you can survive a pretty bad situation by being in the gas for quite a long time, but you don't see that you have little hitpoints left as a result. From then on you will die almost instantly if you make contact with the gas again. or you can even die from headbutting a wall or the floor.

Igor

Nullstrukt the 3d project sounds interesting. please post it when it's done

Nullstrukt

Igor Thanks, I definitely will! Maybe even some teasers along the way just for fun, heh.

Igor

Nullstrukt we can really do a lot of things related to party animals on this forum. i'll think about something too. greatness awaits

Igor

Vividtoast this is weird. you should record it and show it to me